Has anyone done a timeline?

[Priscellie]

The timeline has moved!  Find it here.

I only leave this bit because I didn't bother copying it over to the other timeline, but I didn't think it should be deleted, either.


A POX ON ALL SCARS!

Harry's smallpox vaccination [DM 50] has been a point of contention among those who have contributed to this timeline, especially now that Jim has stated that it is definitely meant as a clue to his age.  This should mean that Harry is at least 36-37 years old at the time of SF (assuming SF takes place in ~2000), as routine vaccination in America against Smallpox stopped in 1972, and it was usually given at age 5-6 years old.  Thanks to cindycic2 and Kalium.  However, using out most conservative estimates and assuming he was born in 28 BSF and given a vaccination at age 5 in 1972, Storm Front would be set in 1995. 

But the few dates we are definitely given cast doubt on this train of logic.  The Unseelie Incursion of 1994 would have happened in time for Storm Front, but the near-burning of the Shroud of Turin in 1997 would not have happened "a few years ago" if Death Masks took place in 1998.  We can only assume that either Harry's vaccination wasn't "routine," or that Duke Ortega was mistaken about the number of years Harry's investigative business had been open, and my entire Harry-timeline is off.  I know which option I'd rather believe.

Fortunately, many fans are coming forward with evidence that "non-routine" vaccinations were a lot more common than I would have guessed.  Amber has discovered that the military continued to vaccinate until the 1980s (like 1989, I think), and that smallpox wasn't declared eradicated until 1980 (the last naturally occurring case being 1977), and she believes that they might have continued to give the vaccine in orphanages.  I think we're safe, but as always, I'll keep this section updated as we piece together the story.

Still, what's also weird is that Butters just assumes Harry is vaccinated.  Unless Murphy somehow knew and told him when they were setting up their meetin in "Death Masks", I can't fathom how he could have known.  Bah, I should just let it go.


Feel free to make corrections/additions!

[Starblade]

hmm yes, 6 or so years between Storm Front and Proven Guilty seems about right to me

[Kalium]

I'll recheck Fool Moon, but I'm fairly certain they were in high school, if just from their ages. I've been assuming a normal college career for Georgia, which means four undergrad and one or two grad. So, as I outlined above, six to eight years between Fool Moon and Proven Guilty is a good guess.

As for acronyms, I propose "Before Chicago" and "After Dresden", or BC and AD. Yes, I am out to cause massive confusion.

[Jack]

For the record wrt poking Jim for info about Harry's age, it was asked on the mailing list many moons ago and (if I recall correctly) he said specifically that he was keeping Harry's exact age under wraps for the time being.

At least that's my recollection.  I might be wrong, but I do seem to recall giving that some thought as to why he might be quite a bit older than we suspected...as to specifics of a timeline, it's probably best to do a reread and take notes as we go.

I'd even be tempted to propose a coordinated reread (I know the Tolkein newsgroup does one on occation and the George RR Martin one is in the midst of one right now).  Basically you start from book 1, break up the chapters and have people volunteer to read a specific chapter and post a summary of it.  Of course there's quite a bit of material and it would probably take quite a long time to do such a thing...then again, we've got quite a bit of time between now and the next book...

[Priscellie]

Hah!  Found it!  Page 41: "They looked like college students, or younger, some still with acne, or too-oily hair, beards that wouldn't quite grow all the way in..."  If we put Billy and Georgia in Freshman or Sophomore year during "Fool Moon," Georgia could easily be a grad student in "Dead Beat" without any annoying 1+ year gaps between books (aside from the FM/GP gap, which we know is one year).  I'm adjusting my timeline to reflect this.

For the record wrt poking Jim for info about Harry's age, it was asked on the mailing list many moons ago and (if I recall correctly) he said specifically that he was keeping Harry's exact age under wraps for the time being.

What is up with wizards named Harry and their writers' math issues?  Well, I guess Jim doesn't really have math issues.  More name issues (the whole Rachel/Paula thing) and where people get shot in the head issues (Corpsetaker) and disappearing evening gown issues (Susan had it in Storm Front, but not when Harry recalls the Frog demon scene in later books.  Selective memory?).    Whatever.  His books are phenomenal, so I'm not about to complain about a few niggling details!

I'd even be tempted to propose a coordinated reread (I know the Tolkein newsgroup does one on occation and the George RR Martin one is in the midst of one right now).  Basically you start from book 1, break up the chapters and have people volunteer to read a specific chapter and post a summary of it.  Of course there's quite a bit of material and it would probably take quite a long time to do such a thing...then again, we've got quite a bit of time between now and the next book...

Now there's a notion.  I'd love to participate if it ends up happening.  (Of course, I'll have to get <i>Storm Front</i> in paperback.  I just have the audio versions of 1-3.)

[Shiggy]

You can also look at the ages of Michael's kids.  Molly was still fairly young (10 or 11) in Storm Front and now she's 17 or so.  So the 6-7 years really isn't a stretch.


As long as Jim doesn't start dipping into the soap world and rapid aging people.

[wavsite]

You can also look at the ages of Michael's kids.  Molly was still fairly young (10 or 11) in Storm Front and now she's 17 or so.  So the 6-7 years really isn't a stretch.

Oh, can we use the age of Baby Harry to figure out that "OPTIONAL YEAR" gap?  Wasn't he born in... the end of Grave Peril? 

So Baby Harry is age 0 in October of year 1 ASF, making him 3 1/2 by Proven Guilty (summer, 5 ASF), without that year, or 4 1/2 with it.  Anyone know what his age was referenced as in PG?  (don't have the books at work... and why am I posting here while working?  oops...)

[Priscellie]

Oh, can we use the age of Baby Harry to figure out that "OPTIONAL YEAR" gap?  Wasn't he born in... the end of Grave Peril? 

So Baby Harry is age 0 in October of year 1 ASF, making him 3 1/2 by Proven Guilty (summer, 5 ASF), without that year, or 4 1/2 with it.  Anyone know what his age was referenced as in PG?  (don't have the books at work... and why am I posting here while working?  oops...)

In "Proven Guilty", we're given the approximate ages of most of Michael's kids, but alas, not baby Harry.  In decreasing order of ages: Molly is 17, Daniel is 15 or 16, Matthew (no age given), Alicia (no age given), Amanda (no age given), Hope is 6 or 7, and little Harry (no age given).  We know little Harry can walk in "Death Masks" (age 1 1/2), but the dates for "Death Masks" are already locked down, so that doesn't help us.  Though if I recall, Harry is still referred to as a baby in "Proven Guilty", and I think that's more likely at age 3 1/2 than 4 1/2.  *shrug* 

Also, we don't know how old Molly is in the earlier books, so we can't work things out that way.  Amanda declares that she is five and a half (and a princess!) in "Death Masks" [DM 159] but we aren't given an age for her in PG.  Bah.  Of course, given that there's two or three years and change between DM and PG, that makes Amanda almost 8 or almost 9 in PG, which gives plenty of leeway on the up-side for Matthew, Alicia, and Daniel, and plenty of space between Amanda and Hope.  Either age is equally likely for Amanda.

I like to think that there's no "optional" year gap between DM and BR, but nothing I've found can rule it out completely.

Thoughts?

[Jack]

I really can't see doing this properly without doing a reread.  At least for me I wouldn't feel comfortable talking about the timeline without having gone through and actually taken notes about dates dropped and ages mentioned...then again that would practically need its own forum.

[Highlander_II]

Actually - Michael's children probably give the best 'backbone' for the timeline - at least starting with GP -  (I pulled this info for another 'project' I'm working on, so I c/p here)

Margaret Katherine Amanda (Molly) - 16 or 17
Daniel - 15 or 16
Alicia - ~ 14 (Molly calls her 'Leech')
Matthew - ~ 11 - 13
Amanda - ~ 11 - 12 (calls Harry D 'Bill' b/c the Carpenters 'already have a Harry')
Hope - 6 or 7 (Molly calls her 'Hobbit')
Harry - 4 or 5 (he was born at the end of "Grave Peril" and there's about a year between books, so he's about 4)

little Harry's about 4 in PG - b/c he's born at the end of GP, and if there's about a year between books (which I think Jim's said before) there are 4 books between GP an PG, so little Harry's either just turned 4 or will turn 4 soon as of PG.

The only other 'date' references that I know of are:

18 June - the date of the Council meeting in SK
31 Oct - the date of the Darkhallow in DB

No years given, but that's all I can recall just now.

Oh - but for more timeline stuff -- Harry was 10 when Justin picked him up at the orphanage, as was Elaine - and they were apparently adopted w/in a few weeks of each other (Harry first, then Elaine) b/c they grew up together and the way Harry talks in SK, it sounds like he wasn't 'alone' at Justin's long.  Then he turned Justin into a crispy critter at the ripe old age of 16.